Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/11/1997 03:06 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 147 - STATE BOARDING SCHOOLS/CHARTER SCHOOLS Number 0027 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the first item on the agenda was HB 147, "An Act relating to charter schools and to the establishment of state boarding schools." Number 0085 BRUCE JOHNSON, Director, Mt. Edgecumbe High School, testified next via teleconference from Sitka. He said Mt. Edgecumbe High School is the only residential public high school in the state of Alaska. As director of the Mt. Edgecumbe High School he urged the committee to approach the establishment of residential high schools in a considerate manner. He has only been the director of Mt. Edgecumbe High School for the past seven months, but previously worked in both Juneau and Kodiak Island. He said Mt. Edgecumbe High School remains a viable residential high school due to the unique circumstances present in the Sitka community. These include: the strong 50 year tradition that started with Mt. Edgecumbe's founding as a Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) school in 1947; the long standing support and partnership of the Sitka community, which at times creates a need for considerable understanding and tolerance; the cooperation of the Sitka community due in part to its size, which allows the sharing of services and the economic viability of private enterprise to participate in the delivery of services in a residential program in a cost effective manner; and finally the commitment of former BIA employees, who have been associated with Mt. Edgecumbe High School for a considerable time and continue to serve the students despite modest wages and benefit packages. Number 0188 MR. JOHNSON said it was his belief that other residential high schools, while potentially valuable to select students throughout Alaska, would result in additional costs to the state or individual school districts beyond the average costs associated in educating, housing and feeding Mt. Edgecumbe High School students. Also, not in spite of the need for rural high schools, residential schools do not work for all students. Creating a residential school would also need to be approached in a deliberate manner to ensure the safety concerns, as well as educational programming, be appropriate to the student body being served. Number 0244 MR. JOHNSON added that Mt. Edgecumbe High School staff would be willing to participate with any school district or community considering the establishment of a residential high school. They have learned a lot with their ongoing efforts and would be more than willing to assist. Number 0278 CHAIRMAN BUNDE thanked him for the willingness to work with other districts that might be interested in residential schools. He said HB 147 is permissive, allowing others to explore the option without requiring residential schools to be established. Number 0317 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON asked him if he thought boarding schools should be under the jurisdiction of the state, rather than under the local school districts. Number 0343 MR. JOHNSON felt that residential high schools, by their nature, are complicated. They are different than day programs and therefore it makes sense that they are approached cautiously. Attempting to care for 13 and 14-year-old children, 24 hours a day, months on end, seven days a week is difficult. He underestimated the requirements and the watchfulness that is appropriate in a boarding situation. He had thought; you only have 235 kids, you can keep them from outside influences, get them to study in the evening, make sure they're adequately fed and well rested, and this should create an idyllic situation. In reality, it is clearly more than a full time job and he is as pressed upon in his job at Mt. Edgecumbe High School as he was as a superintendent in either Juneau or Kodiak Island. Number 0432 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked if we should require that boarding schools be under the jurisdiction of the state as opposed to being under the jurisdiction of local school districts. Number 0457 MR. JOHNSON said, if you explore that question carefully, you will find that the residential component is costly and probably out of the reach of most school districts without some special appropriation. From that standpoint, there is a need for additional money for any large scale residential program that cannot be secured strictly through the state foundation program and the contribution at the local level. Number 0497 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he was asking about the administrative level. He asked if local school districts would be largely incapable of administering a residential program. MR. JOHNSON said no. Number 0533 JOHN CYR, President, National Education Association-Alaska, (NEA- Alaska), said much of what he was going to cover was already addressed by Mr. Johnson. His organization believes that to build boarding charter schools on the local level will cost money. We only have to look at the experience with charter schools in our own districts, which are not boarding schools, as an example. All of them, that he knows of, are pleading with the state to provide extra funds to help them with start up costs and funds to make their programs more viable. Charter schools, by their very nature, have higher start up costs than anyone realized when they supported the legislation last year. A charter school, with a boarding school component, will be beyond the reach of most districts. It will be impossible for districts to put that together without some funding mechanism from the state. If it's not in place and districts attempt to do it anyway, it will do two things: it will hurt existing programs because the extra money needed for housing students has to come from somewhere and it will have to come from the foundation formula; without funding there is the chance that it would weaken the program at Mt. Edgecumbe High School. Mt. Edgecumbe High School has a number of students, if you pull students away from that school then you have an exemplary program that has the potential to suffer because of a lack of funding. Number 0676 MR. CYR referred to the question of the administration. He believed that yes, local school districts can administer boarding schools. The deeper question is whether a single school district should administer a program that draws students from all over the state or should they administer programs for students within their districts. The Anchorage school district is the administration, the governance if you will, for the kids in Anchorage. The MatSu district is for the kids in MatSu. Now, we are talking about a broader spectrum, potentially children from all over the state going to a single school which makes it a statewide concern. The only body that deals with that wide concern is the DOE and the state school board. It seems to him that they would be the appropriate body to be the administrative force behind any statewide program. Number 0741 CHAIRMAN BUNDE repeated that HB 147 is permissive language, not even an unfunded mandate. Number 0752 REPRESENTATIVE J. ALLEN KEMPLEN referred to page 1, line 8, "the local school board shall supply funds necessary to pay the expenses of housing". He suggested changing the word, "shall", to, "may", and asked if that would make a significant difference. It seemed to him that it would open up partnerships with local nonprofit organizations such as a Native corporation. A scenario was presented where a corporation is interested in aggregating a number of students in the Yukon-Kuskokwim area into Bethel or Dillingham for a boarding home. Their contribution is the development of a residential complex so the threshold of creating a boarding school alternative is lowered. Number 0839 MR. CYR believed that option currently exists. If the Lower Kuskokwim school district decides they want a boarding school in Bethel, they have the opportunity to build and maintain a boarding school. CHAIRMAN BUNDE disagreed. MR. CYR clarified that he could be wrong. The point he was trying to make was that a partnership could take place, if this law were to pass. Right now school districts enter into partnerships with private corporations to do a number of things. The ability is there to form those partnerships. Number 0906 MR. CYR said ultimately, in any partnership, it is the school district's responsibility. Otherwise you could have Nana corporation build a dorm, run a dorm and provide the housing, separate from the school. They can build a hotel in Kotzebue and fill it with high school age kids, the district can have those kids go to high school in Kotzebue. Number 0924 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said that is true, but under state law there can only be one boarding school, Mt. Edgecumbe High School. He added that Mt. Edgecumbe High School turns away students every year and if other districts wanted to have a boarding school they should have the right to do so. Number 0947 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN said, "Well I'm not sure whether this is directed to Mr. Cyr or maybe he could answer it. It's actually more along what was just discussed by Representative Kemplen, the word, "shall" in there. Is it the intention of this legislation that if you have a charter school, then that charter school will supply the funds or is that you may want a charter school to be established that doesn't want to, this bill would preclude that." Number 0976 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said the intent of HB 147 is to allow a local district, whether it be a public school or a charter school, to establish a boarding school. The district will pay for this boarding component themselves. The word, "shall", is there so that it is clear that the state does not provide funding for the boarding school. Number 1002 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER said it would not preclude a private donation to accommodate funds for that individual school district. Number 1012 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said the district can partner however they want. It needs to be understood that we aren't setting up an additional state funded boarding school like Mt. Edgecumbe High School. Mt. Edgecumbe High School is funded directly by the state. Number 1038 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern that someone is going to misread Section 1(d). He suggested language to add that the state will not be responsible for boarding. Number 1058 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said he could pursue that line of thought, in the House Rules Committee, to make sure that it isn't possible to misunderstand the language. Number 1077 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt CSHB 147(HES), O- LSO469\B, dated March 7, 1997, Ford as the working document. Hearing no objection, CSHB 147(HES) was before the committee. Number 1095 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to the committee substitute and said he felt it was necessary to tighten up the title so that it would stick to the subject that this bill addresses and not allow confusion as it goes through the process. Number 1125 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN clarified that the purpose of the legislation is just to provide the opportunity for more boarding schools to be established in the state as the current statutes preclude that possibility. He verified that Mt. Edgecumbe High School is completely funded by the state. He asked if someone wanted to come forward, wanted to create another boarding school funding come from the local school district. Number 1170 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said the intent is that the monies would be funneled through the local school districts. If there were monies that came from a non-profit corporation, fundraising or a federal grant then the school district would administer the program. The Anchorage school district contracts with a private agency for transportation. A school district or a charter school might contract with Nana corporation for housing. Number 1161 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN referred to the human threshold and resources that are needed to reach a critical mass which is sometimes a major obstacle to creative initiatives out in our communities. He liked the idea of having more boarding schools in the state, in concept it seems like an appropriate thing to do. The issue of the local school district having to supply funds concerns him because it is similar to previous issues involving the relationship between the state and local community entities. He asked if the state is mandating what they shall do or is the state going to give them the opportunity to be flexible. When you use words like "shall" it seems to be a definitive statement of intent, rather than something that provides more flexibility to a local school board. He suggested that we want to give them the opportunity, but also give them the flexibility to make decisions at the local level. Number 1340 CHAIRMAN BUNDE did not disagree with Representative Kemplen. This bill was based on requests from potential areas that would like to establish charter schools, but it was not his intent to establish other state funded boarding schools like Mt. Edgecumbe High School. He said, at one time, Mt. Edgecumbe High School was supposed to be replaced by regional schools. It was re-established and is serving a good purpose, but he did not know that the state could duplicate a number of Mt. Edgecumbe High Schools. He referred to testimony where duplication of the school might erode Mt. Edgecumbe High School's base. Number 1380 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to Section 1(d), which as he reads it, the only permissible funding would be funding from that particular school board. He proposed a conceptual amendment on page 1, line 8, strike the first five words and add after the word, "expenses", on line 10, "shall not be provided by the state." He read the proposed change, "the funds necessary to pay the expenses of housing nonresident students who attend the charter school, including room, board, and other reasonable housing expenses shall not be provided by the state." He said this would not state, specifically, that the school board would have to supply the funds. He felt the language accomplished what the chair indicated he wanted to do, not burden the state with another Mt. Edgecumbe High School. This language does not necessarily indicate that the school board does it, it is open to anyone except the state. Number 1446 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said this conceptual amendment seems reasonable. Number 1461 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER emphasized that Representative Green had made this a conceptual amendment, the committee could let the bill drafter put what our conception is into the proper language. If the committee sees a problem with it, we won't accept it. CHAIRMAN BUNDE said he was deciding whether to do this as a committee substitute or pass it as a conceptual amendment where if problems developed they could be addressed in the House Rules Standing Committee. Number 1494 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt a conceptual amendment which would, "strike the first five words on line 8, `local school board shall supply' and then at the end of line 10, after the word `expenses' insert, `shall not be provided by the state.'" Number 1531 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked for an explanation of conceptual amendments. Number 1535 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said the thrust of the idea is here, it might have to be worded somewhat differently in legalese by Legislative Legal and by the bill drafter to get proper language to fit the bill. Number 1548 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER clarified that the committee is trying to make the language say, in (d) on page 1, that an individual school district may seek outside funds to assist in the funding of this school, but should not look to the state to be the source of those funds. Virtually everywhere else that is legal may be a funding source for the boarding school. CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced, that hearing no objection, Amendment Green-1 was adopted. Number 1578 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move CSHB 147(HES) as amended with individual recommendations and zero fiscal note. Hearing no objections CSHB 147(HES) was moved from the House Health, Education and Social Services Committee.
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